DESIGN OF LIFE: You interviewed 150 scientists for your film. I wonder if that's a record. I gather an effort has been made to discredit the film on the grounds that the anti-ID folk were misrepresented, basically that you tricked them into taking part.

MATHIS: It's not surprising. When you're used to a situation where everything that is talked about in books and films fits your dogmatic view - and that's what they've had - and then a film comes along that applies some actual skepticism, naturally they're unhappy.

They had the list of questions we were going to be examining. A controversy takes at least two sides. But they've become very used to only one side.

Apparently they didn't understand that we were really going to do just what we said we were going to do.

One salient point - all of these people are continually speaking to this issue on the Internet, and in books and films. What they told us is consistent with what they say elsewhere.

DOL: So then if anyone misrepresented them in the film, it was themselves. What further efforts do you expect? Attack? Ignore? Litigate?

MATHIS: My guess is they'll have to go with attack because there's going to be too much heat, too much discussion.

DOL: Had you been interested in ID before you started making the film? Have you learned anything?

MATHIS: Mildly interested. I certainly wasn't carrying on any kind of a crusade for it. What I learned? Oh man that's a big question. I certainly have learned a tremendous amount about astronomy, biology, physics, probability, logic, reasoning, philosophy, human behavior, confirmation bias - wow!

DOL: Okay, prof, what's confirmation bias?

MATHIS: Every scientist and journalist should be forced to take a class on confirmation bias. It means saying, I'm right, this is the way it is. Why are you questioning me? A lot of people in science and medicine are completely unaware of the fact that they need to protect themselves from it, or else they don't even try.

I also found that in interviewing scientists who were not biologists, I was quite surprised at their lack of understanding of biology. I incorrectly assumed that they would actually know, but they did not. Yet they are absolutely convinced that this is the truth.

DOL: So Darwin loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life? And what about the biologists?

MATHIS: The biologists are an interesting lot. They somehow don't face the information problem. Where does information come from? You can't just jump over how life began. It's not intellectually honest. If you're going to believe in a materialist point to view, you're going to have to address that.

That's one of the stunning things I learned on this project - these people have never entertained the possibility that they might be wrong. Yet the history of science shows that many people have entertained ideas that proved to be wrong.

DOL: The Pharisees of science? But what about the ID guys? Aren't they convinced they're right too?

MATHIS: When you look at the two sides - the ID guys are convinced they're right too, but they're not saying neo-Darwinism is not a legitimate theory, just that there is another side to this. It's called design. It is a rational scientific proposition and we have data to back it up. They are not saying the other side has no reason to exist or is stupid.

Return to PART ONE: The Expelled Movie: Intelligent design hits the big screen in April

Update: Here's a podcast interview with Mark.